Integration going well, I see

[Tattie]

No I'm not. I'm asking you to think about what you've posted, that the govt should adopt a much more effective policy of integration. There is this narrative that says a government can cause integration, or that immigrants should be required to pass an exam in Britishness or pass Tebbit's cricket team test.

A moment's thought reveals all of that as absurdly facile crap. Imagine yourself emigrating to say Egypt. You'd probably prefer to go and stay where the other Brits stay. You'd shop in an British shop. You'd eat British food. You'd go into a British pub if there was one. You'd speak English in your home. Probably wouldn't convert to Islam. You'd support British sports teams. What measures do you suppose the Egyptian govt should take to integrate you? Would you expect to be treated with suspicion and hostility by Egyptians?

That is the situation an immigrant is in. You would be no different."Integration" takes generations.

Much of what you have written there is undeniable, if a touch flippant.

Using Egypt as a comparison is, of course, laughable as it has none of the enticements dangled in front of wannabee immigrants to this country, opportunity, freedoms, security, human rights and social services. I'm not denying the case for immigration on the grounds of asylum nor on compassionate grounds. Neither am I denying the desirability of immigration to aid the economy of the "motherland".

What I am saying is that immigration should be the right of the target country and no-one else to allow and any flow should be strictly controlled along the lines I stated above. There should be a tap that can be turned on or off as required. That demonstrably has not been the case and has been exacerbated by porous border controls resulting in

"The Home Office estimated in 2005 that the illegal immigrant population in Britain was between 310,000 and 570,000 but other groups such as Migrationwatch UK, which campaigns against mass immigration, have put the figure far higher."(around a million).

That you can vehemently deny that immigration is uncontrolled almost beggars belief. How many illegal, unrecorded and unwanted immigrants would you need to change your view? 1 million? 5 million? 10? What level of "control" do you imagine is applied to come up with a Home Office estimate that varies by nearly 100%?

How can it be possible to attempt to integrate unknown numbers who, as you outlined earlier will naturally gravitate towards the centres of their displaced cultures. I wouldn't need to emigrate to Egypt to feel foreign, I could do that in Slough or Leicester or Bradford.

On another tack, you also stated that Sharia was not a law. Tell that to the Muslims that are in it's thrall.

[John]

one of Mr Oswald Moseley's nice black shirts.

Calm down dear. You sound like a young student who has just discovered Marx.

[Lippytarian]

What I am saying is that immigration should be the right of the target country and no-one else to allow and any flow should be strictly controlled along the lines I stated above. There should be a tap that can be turned on or off as required. That demonstrably has not been the case and has been exacerbated by porous border controls resulting in

"The Home Office estimated in 2005 that the illegal immigrant population in Britain was between 310,000 and 570,000 but other groups such as Migrationwatch UK, which campaigns against mass immigration, have put the figure far higher."(around a million).

That you can vehemently deny that immigration is uncontrolled almost beggars belief. How many illegal, unrecorded and unwanted immigrants would you need to change your view? 1 million? 5 million? 10? What level of "control" do you imagine is applied to come up with a Home Office estimate that varies by nearly 100%?

Immigration it tightly controlled and the true situation in terms of turning taps on and off is much as you have described it. The EU is a free trade area of which the UK is a member. Try to remember that everybody benefits economically from free trade. Free movement of labour is part of that. Other than that it is very difficult to get into the UK. The last time I tried to get someone in from outside the EU it proved impossible - they went to work in America instead. Our loss was America's gain.

The major waves of immigration from the W Indies and the Indian subcontinent happened at our invitation at times of labour shortages here. That explains Brixton and the northern mill towns. The lions share of the net EU immigration is economic in its motivation and so benefits the UK economy.

Unfortunately, in its eagerness to panda to xenophobia, the government seems to have focussed on foreign students as one of the few areas where government might impose a material reduction in the figures. Unfortunately "exporting education" which is what we are talking about here, is a huge cultural success story as well as an important foreign revenue earner, so stopping foreign students coming in about as daft an idea as you will find.