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Integration going well, I see

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Lippytarian
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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 06:32:22 am »

Easy. A police officer goes into that room and says "You do not have the authority to impose a punishment upon anyone. Stop it"

No doubt they are well aware of that already - what makes you think they aren't? What do you imagine is going on? Have you invented in your mind a scenario where people in this country are having their hands cut off?
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John
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 11:25:29 am »

No doubt they are well aware of that already - what makes you think they aren't? What do you imagine is going on? Have you invented in your mind a scenario where people in this country are having their hands cut off?

If they are aware that they have no authority but are still trying to execute it then they should be stopped, as I said above.`Stop it` That means dont do it any more.

What I imagine is going on is that Imams and other Islamic leaders are imposing punishments on people whom they consider toi be sinners for breaking Sharia law. There is only one law in England.
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Lippytarian
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 09:39:29 pm »

What I imagine is going on is that Imams and other Islamic leaders are imposing punishments on people...

"Imagine" being the operative word.

You are an irredeemable islamophobe. Someone says "Sharia" and the bile comes drooling out in Pavlovian style. As the article Tattie posted says "But the informal councils have no legal powers and they cannot impose any penalties. They deal with civil cases alone, but many Muslims are choosing to voluntarily accept rulings made by the scholars."

But that's more than enough for you, fuelled by nothing more than bigotry, to make a serious accusation of law-breaking and the police taking no action. You are aware that inciting hatred of that kind is illegal? The only person at risk of breaking the law is you.
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Tattie
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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2012, 08:04:25 pm »

No. You can't. So, again, what are you suggesting should be done? How might you change the beliefs and cultural practices that people bring into the country with them? Not through thought-police nor coercion presumably. If I've learned one thing posting on forums like this it is that you won't persuade an ignoramus out of their ignorance, or a bigot out of their bigotry, or succeed in using reason against a faith-position. That applies equally to the female genital mutilator and the BNP meathead. So you should do yourself a favour and forget about changing anybody's mind about of any of this.

Ours has been an outward-looking, a maritime, a trading and an empire-building country. To come over all bigoted and intolerant of other people's ways when they are drawn or very often brought to our shores is just daft. Yet hostility to immigrants inevitably follows the waves of immigration which are a recurring feature of our history. Is integration just a function of time? How much time, how many generations might it take for a level of integration that you would find acceptable? Or perhaps are you demanding a monoculture?

Do perhaps British Jews provide a good example of incomplete integration where they manage to retain for centuries a degree of cultural and racial separation? How about the Afro-Caribbeans - they used to come in for exactly the same kind of bigotry that is being aimed at Muslims now? Why did that stop happening? Are they "integrated" now, or did the hate-group flavour of the month just happen to move on?
The UK doesn't have uncontrolled immigration.
Again what does that mean? How do you encourage people to integrate? Imagine yourself moving to a country like, oh I don't know, Egypt or something. What should you be expected to do, to integrate yourself? Start eating sheep's eyes? Support the Egyptian football team? Or what? Be as specific as you can.

You are taking the ****!
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Lippytarian
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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2012, 08:01:19 pm »

No I'm not. I'm asking you to think about what you've posted, that the govt should adopt a much more effective policy of integration. There is this narrative that says a government can cause integration, or that immigrants should be required to pass an exam in Britishness or pass Tebbit's cricket team test.

A moment's thought reveals all of that as absurdly facile crap. Imagine yourself emigrating to say Egypt. You'd probably prefer to go and stay where the other Brits stay. You'd shop in an British shop. You'd eat British food. You'd go into a British pub if there was one. You'd speak English in your home. Probably wouldn't convert to Islam. You'd support British sports teams. What measures do you suppose the Egyptian govt should take to integrate you? Would you expect to be treated with suspicion and hostility by Egyptians?

That is the situation an immigrant is in. You would be no different."Integration" takes generations.
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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2012, 01:55:32 pm »

What you seem to overlook, or rather choose to ignore, is that we have accepted immigrants from all over the place for years;huguenots, jews all sorts of people and we`ve had no trouble. Until recently. Why? It`s to do with numbers. Before when immigrants arrived they were in easily absorbed numbers, now we see the results of uncontrolled(Oh yes it bloody well is) immigration in ridiculous numbers which has totally skewed the ethnic mix in so many of our towns. I suppose you close your eyes to that. There`s none so blind as them that dont want to see. Large parts of many of our towns have become totally `foreign` It makes people uneasy, they see their country changing before their eyes at an alarming rate and the less restrained take to the streets.

Just face it for goids sake and open your eyes, the immigration policy of both main parties has been disastrous. They have hidden it under a policy of massive social security payments, but now that these are being reduced just wait for the backlash when our youngsters out of work which is taken by immigrants find their social payments cut.
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2012, 04:46:26 pm »

.` It makes people uneasy, they see their country changing before their eyes at an alarming rate and the less restrained take to the streets.

That will only get worse all the time immigrants are allowed to flood in

It is time the UK Government imposed strict limits on who can come here
Never mind what the EU or anyone else says
It is our country , it is time we put our own people first
Not a family of immigrants who come here and go straight on to benefits without having paid one single penny in contributions
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« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2012, 12:56:14 pm »

Damn right Cat. But the limp left wont see it until action on the streets because of racial tension equates to what happened a while ago. But it could get very much worse seeing that it will be targeted to people rather than property.
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2012, 12:41:38 pm »

What you seem to overlook, or rather choose to ignore, is that we have accepted immigrants from all over the place for years;huguenots, jews all sorts of people and we`ve had no trouble.

What rubbish is this? Waves of immigration are very often followed by trouble. Because bigots will always blame immigrants for anything and everything. Today's heroic bigots are taking up the mantle of generations and centuries of heroic bigots that went before them. Plus ca change. Never had a problem with Jews? Funny guy! This article here charts the history, including the frequent episodes of British anti-semitism. History of the Jews in England

... uncontrolled(Oh yes it bloody well is)

Liar. Repeating a lie does not make it any more true. The immigrants that trouble you the most because of your racism have not come here from countries in the EU with whom we have open borders. They have been deliberately imported from parts of our former empire during times of labour-shortages.

... immigration in ridiculous numbers which has totally skewed the ethnic mix in so many of our towns. I suppose you close your eyes to that. There`s none so blind as them that dont want to see. Large parts of many of our towns have become totally `foreign` It makes people uneasy, they see their country changing before their eyes at an alarming rate and the less restrained take to the streets.

I'm not a racist. So it doesn't trouble me one iota if the man walking past me on the street is brown white or black. The thing you can't understand is how anyone could not have a problem with the changing racial mix of the UK's population. You don't understand how anyone can simply not share your senseless loathing and bigotry for people whose genetic and cultural heritage differs from their own.

If you have a problem it is only because you and people like you have invented one - in the cesspit of loathing inside your own heads. I would almost feel sorry for you, except that you made it, you want it, you have chosen to wallow in it - your discomfort is nobody's fault but your own.
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2012, 12:46:47 pm »

Not a family of immigrants who come here and go straight on to benefits without having paid one single penny in contributions

Ahem, Iain Duncan Smith rebuked by watchdogs over figures on migrants. The recent government attempt to smear immigrants with the slur of benefits scrounging served only to underline the fact that immigrants on average are claiming less than people who were born here!
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2012, 01:22:50 pm »

]
Damn right Cat. But the limp left wont see it until action on the streets because of racial tension equates to what happened a while ago. But it could get very much worse seeing that it will be targeted to people rather than property.

If it does happen you can be almost certain that left wingers will blame everyone else but themselves 
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2012, 01:44:07 pm »

If it does happen you can be almost certain that left wingers will blame everyone else but themselves 

Maybe next time the people stirring it up will be the Socialist Workers Party rather than the BNP and the EDL. Until that happens it is self-evidently a faction on the political right whose role it is to nurse their knuckle-dragging bigotry and promote dischord wherever they smell an opportunity.

Even the mainstream political right is not above appealing to people's baser instincts on immigration. The Tories campaigned on this, making false promises that they would take steps significantly to reduce immigration. They had no intention of doing anything material, but their weaseling to gain a few votes has the effect of nurturing and legitimising any xenophobia that people may have.
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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2012, 01:57:04 pm »

The recent government attempt to smear immigrants with the slur of benefits scrounging served only to underline the fact that immigrants on average are claiming less than people who were born here!


Whatever the number of immigrants  coming here and claiming benefits  is  ,and whether they claim more or less . Or exactly the same as our own people is not the point

What is the point  in my opinion and that of thousands of others is that no one should be able come to this country and claim benefits  without having paid any contribution

And yes I don’t think UK citizens should have the right to go to any other country and be able to claim there benefits without having paid  contributions
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2012, 09:07:14 pm »

I'm not a racist.

I don`t give a flying **** what you are. The only rabid outpourings I read on this forum come from you. Since this is my country I reserve the right to criticise it in any legal way I see fit and since I think Islam is a blight upon humanity and abhorrent to most free people who are not themselves Islamic I also reserve the right to criticise them and it in any legal way I choose.

 I read your Wikipeadia thing about Jews. Did you read it? I don`t think you could have because  unless you want to go back several hundred years Jews have NOT been badly treated in England. We had a Jewish Prime Minister for chrissake, what kind of racism is that? We had Jews fighting for Britain in both world wars. They formed their own Jewish Legion.

Dry your eyes and wind your neck in.
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« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2012, 08:37:23 am »

I read your Wikipeadia thing about Jews. Did you read it? I don`t think you could have because  unless you want to go back several hundred years Jews have NOT been badly treated in England. We had a Jewish Prime Minister for chrissake, what kind of racism is that? We had Jews fighting for Britain in both world wars. They formed their own Jewish Legion.

Dry your eyes and wind your neck in.

You said "we have accepted immigrants from all over the place for years;huguenots, jews all sorts of people and we`ve had no trouble". By any standards that is a stupid thing to say. Tensions have flared up due to immigration and race many times in my lifetime - if there is anything unusual or different happening now then perhaps you can tell us what it is. As for denying anti-semitism, well, why not go the whole hog and deny the holocaust. You are old enough to remember the Battle of Cable Street, dammit you were probably there in your short trousers and one of Mr Oswald Moseley's nice black shirts.
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