Alternative
March 28, 2024, 09:17:04 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home   Forum   Help Search Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Abbott

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Abbott  (Read 245 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Tattie
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1304



Badges: (View All)
Windows User Combination Topic Starter
« on: January 05, 2012, 12:03:13 pm »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16423278

Oh dear!(Who should care!)

I know the PC prattle will have it that if a white person had said something similar about whites all hell should break loose.

I couldn't care less. Diane Abbott is quite an entertaining loose cannon and should be encouraged.
Report Spam   Logged

Maybe this world is another planet's hell !

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

John
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1506




Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 02:32:34 pm »

I kind of agree but she is pretty two faced like most champagne socialists - send her kid to a private school and claims to support Labour interests.
Report Spam   Logged
Lippytarian
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4656


I am a banana



Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Starter
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2012, 05:56:46 am »

What she said was a racist remark, pure and simple. Which is surpising considering who she is and what she does.

But anyone who criticises a parent for doing the best they can for their children has managed to get through life learning nothing about human nature. I send my children to a faith school even though I think such things are sectarian, an offence to reason and a misallocation of communal funds where the State should so obviously be neutral on the matter of people's superstitious beliefs.
Report Spam   Logged

Be careful what you ask for - you might get it
John
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1506




Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2012, 04:55:51 pm »

What she said was a racist remark, pure and simple. Which is surpising considering who she is and what she does.

But anyone who criticises a parent for doing the best they can for their children has managed to get through life learning nothing about human nature. I send my children to a faith school even though I think such things are sectarian, an offence to reason and a misallocation of communal funds where the State should so obviously be neutral on the matter of people's superstitious beliefs.

Any parent who privately supports something which she publicly condemns is two faced and not to be trusted.
Report Spam   Logged
Lippytarian
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4656


I am a banana



Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Starter
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2012, 08:53:28 pm »

Any parent who privately supports something which she publicly condemns is two faced and not to be trusted.

That's me then. What would you suggest I do? Pretend I'm in favour of faith schools after all? Or force my children to travel to a secular school in a different parish and separate them from their local friends?

It seems Dianne Abbott is willing to do whatever is best for her children - whatever the cost might be to herself or her reputation. Anybody who has the slightest inkling of what it is to be a parent would understand and respect that.

Report Spam   Logged

Be careful what you ask for - you might get it
John
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1506




Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2012, 04:50:49 pm »

If you are implacably opposed to them you should not be supporting one. If asked I would ask you what hurts your children most. Going to a school which they know that you hate, or going to a school farther away of which you approve.

I suppoort Grammar schools. Both of my daughters went to grammar schools. It bugs hell out of me that Cameron, a Tory, wont support them and I have told him so. What bugs me even more is the two faced way that those peoiple who benefitted from attending Grammar schools now oppose them `Pull the ladder up Jack, I`m inboard`



Bastards.
Report Spam   Logged
John
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1506




Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2012, 04:58:51 pm »

Something else that you might bear in mind about faith schools.
During the Dark Ages when there was not much general education for anyone it was the Monasteries which preserved the written history of this country, ever heard of the Venerable Bede?, even in the face of Henry the eigth`s depradations during his Dissolution they preserved their histories for posterity. And after the Dissolution, and Henry`s death they resurrected their schools in double quick time. They kept a knowledge of history and mathematics and philosophy alive in their much derided faith schools.
Report Spam   Logged
Lippytarian
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4656


I am a banana



Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Starter
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 06:30:41 pm »

If you are implacably opposed to them you should not be supporting one. If asked I would ask you what hurts your children most. Going to a school which they know that you hate, or going to a school farther away of which you approve.

It's a good school and I like it. Despite the occasional bit of hocus pocus they indulge in. We are well able to stiffen our children's sinews against that kind of silliness. The CofE status is tolerable for this particular athiest but would obviously actively discourage people of other faiths from sending their children there. The school is probably more mono-cultural than it should be and not properly representative of the area.

I suppoort Grammar schools. Both of my daughters went to grammar schools. It bugs hell out of me that Cameron, a Tory, wont support them and I have told him so. What bugs me even more is the two faced way that those peoiple who benefitted from attending Grammar schools now oppose them `Pull the ladder up Jack, I`m inboard`. Bastards.

A recent study has shown that Grammar schools are no better than modern comprehensives. If you send an able student to either school they will do equally as well. Grammar schools, therefore, are not needed. The supposed superiority of grammar schools turns out to be an illusion created by the fact that they harvest the best pupils.

Going to a comprehensive school 'is no disadvantage in later life', finds 50-year study

Grammar schools do not improve social mobility for working-class
Report Spam   Logged

Be careful what you ask for - you might get it
Lippytarian
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4656


I am a banana



Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Starter
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 07:05:00 pm »

Something else that you might bear in mind about faith schools.
During the Dark Ages when there was not much general education for anyone it was the Monasteries which preserved the written history of this country, ever heard of the Venerable Bede?, even in the face of Henry the eigth`s depradations during his Dissolution they preserved their histories for posterity. And after the Dissolution, and Henry`s death they resurrected their schools in double quick time. They kept a knowledge of history and mathematics and philosophy alive in their much derided faith schools.

That may well be the Gospel according to the Church.

On the other hand information is power. The Church hoarded the knowledge and made it inaccessible to anyone else. Including by keeping everything, including especially the Bible (for Chrissakes), in Latin. They suppressed knowledge when it suited them. They persecuted anyone who used reason to challenge the nonsensical fixed certainties of their self-serving dogma. They are the reason the Dark Ages were dark. And all of this only came to an end when the power of the Church was broken. After a millennium of ossification humanity could finally move on.
Report Spam   Logged

Be careful what you ask for - you might get it
John
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1506




Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 09:28:51 pm »

Grammar schools do not improve social mobility for working-class

It`s the Guardian for chrissake, what would you expect them to say.

40% of the ouput from comprehensives leave school illiterate and innumerate. This is not the case with grammar school children.
The thrust of the Guardian`s report is all about the amount of money they can make, children that is, and about their social molbility. A decent education such as is provided in grammar schools is what every child should have. We should hang our heads in shame at the state of education in the UK. Education should not be about earning power and social mobility but about education for its own sake and for the well being and self confidence of the child.

I`m pleased to be able to say that a new Grammar is opening in Sevenoaks very soon. Kentish parents are very aware of the benefits of a good education and do not deprive their children in pursuit of left wing ideaology.

Thank you Mr Gove...well done.
Report Spam   Logged
Lippytarian
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4656


I am a banana



Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Starter
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 10:37:36 pm »

Grammar schools do not improve social mobility for working-class

It`s the Guardian for chrissake, what would you expect them to say.

40% of the ouput from comprehensives leave school illiterate and innumerate. This is not the case with grammar school children.
The thrust of the Guardian`s report is all about the amount of money they can make, children that is, and about their social molbility. A decent education such as is provided in grammar schools is what every child should have. We should hang our heads in shame at the state of education in the UK. Education should not be about earning power and social mobility but about education for its own sake and for the well being and self confidence of the child.

I`m pleased to be able to say that a new Grammar is opening in Sevenoaks very soon. Kentish parents are very aware of the benefits of a good education and do not deprive their children in pursuit of left wing ideaology.

Thank you Mr Gove...well done.

You're living in a dreamworld full of dismal falsehoods in support of time-expired prejudices.

1. The research was done, the results are clear and are not invalidated because they were reported in the Guardian. The other link I posted was to the Daily Mail, presumably if you'd bothered to read exactly the same thing there you'd be more inclined to believe it Roll Eyes

2. This 40% is a number you invented, as has been pointed out to you before. It has no basis in reality.

The research shows that if you take the same person and put them through a grammar school or a modern comprehensive the outcome over the long term - it is a 50 year study - will be the same. The right-wing dogma about grammar schools and social mobility is an ideological fallacy which you've previously repeated. I don't know what you mean by suggesting "education for its own sake and for the well being and self confidence of the child" is somehow the exclusive preserve of grammar schools - presumably that's something else you've just made up.

Are you able to offer anything at all, rooted in fact, in support of your beliefs?
Report Spam   Logged

Be careful what you ask for - you might get it
Lippytarian
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4656


I am a banana



Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Starter
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2012, 08:12:30 am »

Nice to see my old school stuck firmly to the top of the national list for A-level results.

And so it should be. It creams off the best pupils from half of the county. And also, amplifying the point about about playing no role in social mobility, I see it has only 1% of pupils with free school meals. There is no doubt you had to pass the 11+ to get in. But I did always wonder whether other factors were at play. There seemed to be a quota in operation - my primary school seemed to send exactly 6 boys to the grammar school each year and I do wonder if there was an element of the boys having to be the right type. After all, they always had the pick of way too many applicants.
Report Spam   Logged

Be careful what you ask for - you might get it
John
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1506




Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2012, 02:17:53 pm »

There is nothing sinister in that school sending only six boys each year to the grammar. The grammar, if it follows the national trend, is hugely oversubscribed. That being the case they are forced to limit admission by exam;the 11plus or Kent Test as it is known here.

I couldn`t find any figures for literacy and numeracy among school leaver but this will amplify my argument.

www.guardian.co.uk/.../
www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/may/
www.telegraph.co.uk
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6954666.stm


That should be enoughn to be getting on with even if I cannot prove my claim of 40%
Report Spam   Logged
Lippytarian
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4656


I am a banana



Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Starter
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2012, 11:51:14 am »

Your links don't work.

This research here gives the information you are looking for: Government-funded research claims 20% of 16- to 19-year-olds lack basic skills.

The article describes a long-term and intractable problem, which has improved slightly in recent decades."Sheffield University researchers synthesised more than 60 years of evidence on numeracy and literacy and concluded that standards have generally risen in England, with the highest skills among the best in the world. But they also found a significant proportion of young people still lacked the basic skills needed to function in society."

Just the profile you would expect if resources are focused on the best. The top of the class are good, the average is mediocre and there is a "long tail of underachievement". You feign concern for the underachievers, yet you advocate focussing resources further on an academic elite in an expanded grammar school sector - something which would further disadvantage less gifted children.

International comparisons here.
Report Spam   Logged

Be careful what you ask for - you might get it
John
Hero
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1506




Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2012, 09:19:44 pm »

Then I don`t know how to make a flaming link work, I thought if I cut and paste a www address in green it would be a workable link.

The UK is ranked 25th for reading, 28th for maths and 16th for science. In 2006, when 57 countries were included in the study, it was placed 17th, 24th and 14th respectively. Poland has stretched ahead of the UK in maths, while Norway is now ranked higher in reading and maths.

Andreas Shleicher, head of the Pisa programme, said the picture for the UK was "stagnant at best"."Many other countries have seen quite significant improvement," he added.



That is from your link. Are you happy with what it illustrates?
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy